Truth Be Told

What happens when fear becomes policy—and the people labeled “the worst of the worst” are no longer treated as people?
In this episode of the Truth Be Told Podcast, host Dave Thompson, CFI explores the powerful story behind the documentary Leaving Hotel California and the complicated legacy of Guantanamo Bay, post-9/11 interrogations, enhanced interrogation techniques, torture, and the human consequences of abandoning evidence-based investigative practices.
Dave is joined by filmmakers Chimène de Jonge and Aybüke Demirel, former NCIS Special Agent Mark Fallon, and former Guantanamo detainee and Guantánamo Diary author Mohamedou Ould Slahi for a conversation about investigative interviewing, coercion, false information, cognitive bias, morality, forgiveness, and what happens when fear begins influencing the investigative process.
Inside Leaving Hotel California
Support the Documentary Here.
The documentary Leaving Hotel California examines Guantanamo Bay through the experiences of the people who lived this history from dramatically different perspectives.
Chimène and Aybüke explain how a journalism project driven by their interest in human rights evolved into a documentary focused not simply on what happened at Guantanamo, but on the people behind the history. Their reporting led them to former government officials, investigators, intelligence professionals, attorneys, and detainees as they attempted to understand what actually happened—and why.
Mark Fallon: Fighting Torture From Inside the System
Mark Fallon offers a rare perspective from inside the U.S. government's response to September 11.
As a senior NCIS investigator involved in terrorism investigations after 9/11, Fallon describes watching interrogation practices evolve from legitimate investigative efforts toward coercive techniques and prisoner abuse. He discusses his attempts to challenge those practices, document what was happening, and warn government leadership about how history would ultimately judge the decisions being made.
The conversation also examines SERE — Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape — training and the controversial decision to adapt techniques designed to help U.S. personnel resist abusive treatment for use in interrogations.
Fallon explains the fundamental contradiction: techniques associated with increasing resistance and producing unreliable or false information were being adapted as methods for obtaining intelligence.
For investigators, law enforcement professionals, HR investigators, intelligence professionals, and anyone interested in science-based investigative interviewing, the lesson extends well beyond Guantanamo:
Pressure can produce compliance. That doesn't mean it produces reliable information.
Mohamedou Ould Slahi: The Human Being Behind the Label
Mohamedou brings the conversation from interrogation theory to lived experience.
He describes his detention, interrogation, sleep deprivation, abuse, and the psychological impact of being treated not as an individual, but as part of a category of people presumed to be dangerous.
But Mohamedou also challenges one of the most common debates surrounding enhanced interrogation:
Why is the question whether torture works? What if the more important question is whether torture is morally acceptable in the first place?
That distinction creates one of the most powerful moments of the episode and forces a broader conversation about ethics, investigative integrity, human rights, and what limits should exist even when investigators believe the stakes could not be higher.
Investigative Bias, False Information & the Danger of Certainty
The episode also explores how the fear and uncertainty following September 11 created conditions where confirmation bias, categorization, assumptions, and investigative tunnel vision could influence decision-making.
Fallon describes investigators being tasked not only with identifying people responsible for terrorism, but also with investigating evidence that could exonerate detainees who should not have been at Guantanamo in the first place.
It's a lesson that remains relevant to investigators today.
When investigators become committed to a conclusion before fully developing the information, the interview can shift from an effort to discover what happened into an effort to confirm what we already believe happened.
An Unexpected Friendship
Perhaps the most powerful part of Leaving Hotel California isn't about interrogation at all.
It's about the friendship that developed between Mark Fallon and Mohamedou Ould Slahi.
Their relationship began through books, virtual conversations, and shared discussions about Guantanamo before the filmmakers ultimately captured their first meeting in person. Fallon describes what drew him to Mohamedou simply: his humanity.
At the airport, Mohamedou greeted Mark with a sign inspired by the phrase displayed at Guantanamo, “Honor Bound to Defend Freedom.”
Mohamedou's version carried a different message:
“Bound to remain human.”
That idea becomes the thread running through the entire conversation.
Behind every investigation, accusation, intelligence report, interrogation, and headline is a human being.
And regardless of what someone is suspected of doing, investigators still have an obligation to remain objective, ethical, curious—and human.
In This Episode
Dave, Mark, Mohamedou, Chimène, and Aybüke discuss:
The story behind the documentary Leaving Hotel California
Guantanamo Bay and the U.S. response following September 11
Mark Fallon's role investigating terrorism after 9/11
Mohamedou Ould Slahi's experience at Guantanamo Bay
Enhanced interrogation techniques and torture
SERE training and its adaptation for interrogation
Coercion, compliance, and false or unreliable information
False confessions and the psychology of interrogation
Confirmation bias and investigative tunnel vision
Science-based and evidence-based investigative interviewing
Ethics and morality in interrogation
Human rights and the rule of law
The importance of documenting and challenging investigative decisions
Journalism and documentary filmmaking as forms of investigation
Forgiveness, empathy, moral courage and humanity
The friendship between Mark Fallon and Mohamedou Ould Slahi
 
 
Ultimately, this episode asks a question that extends far beyond Guantanamo Bay:
When the pressure is highest and we're most certain we're right, can we still remain curious enough to challenge our assumptions—and principled enough to remain human?
About Wicklander-Zulawski & Associates
The Truth Be Told Podcast is hosted by Dave Thompson, CFI, CEO of Wicklander-Zulawski & Associates (WZ).
For more than four decades, Wicklander-Zulawski has trained investigators around the world in investigative interviewing, workplace investigations, criminal investigative interviewing, rapport development, cognitive interviewing, interview strategy, and evidence-based approaches to obtaining reliable information.
WZ advocates for ethical, non-confrontational and science-informed interviewing practices designed to help investigators move beyond simply seeking admissions or confessions and instead focus on the real objective of an investigation: developing accurate and reliable information.
Through instructor-led programs and the Human Risk Academy powered by WZ, Wicklander-Zulawski provides training and professional development for law enforcement, corporate investigations, loss prevention and asset protection, human resources and employee relations professionals, and other investigators responsible for navigating high-risk human interactions.
Truth Be Told continues that mission through conversations with researchers, practitioners, investigators, leaders, journalists, advocates, and people whose experiences challenge us to think differently about how we investigate, how we communicate, and how we understand one another.

Most communication problems aren't really about what happened.
They're about what happens next.
In this episode of Truth Be Told, Dave Thompson sits down with communication expert Alex Perry to explore why even well-intentioned people misunderstand each other — and what we can do differently.
From difficult conversations and feedback to active listening, empathy, body language and leadership presence, Alex challenges some of the assumptions we've been taught about what “good communication” actually looks like.
They explore why curiosity may be more valuable than certainty, why listening doesn't always mean fixing, how leaders can show empathy without lowering expectations, and why our desire to quickly reach an answer can prevent us from actually understanding the person in front of us.
The conversation also tackles communication myths — including the often-cited 93/7 rule — and examines how the same principles apply across leadership, relationships, sales and investigative interviews.
Because sometimes the most important question isn't, “What should I say next?”
It's: “What am I missing?”
Want to improve how you handle difficult conversations, workplace conflict, and high-stakes communication? Wicklander-Zulawski & Associates (WZ) provides evidence-based training for leaders, HR professionals, investigators, and organizations looking to strengthen communication, active listening, rapport, and decision-making. Explore WZ’s training and resources to build practical skills for navigating the conversations that matter most.

Can better communication save your relationship, strengthen your leadership, and improve your toughest conversations? 
In this episode of Truth Be Told, Dave Thompson, CFI sits down with licensed therapist Kristina Virro to explore the psychology behind effective communication, healthy relationships, emotional intelligence, and conflict resolution. Whether you're navigating a marriage, leading a team, conducting investigative interviews, or simply trying to become a better communicator, this conversation is packed with practical, research-backed insights. 
Together they discuss: 
Why recurring arguments are rarely about the surface issue.  
The communication habits that quietly damage relationships.  
How curiosity outperforms assumptions in both personal and professional conversations.  
The science behind the Gottmans' research and the predictors of relationship success.  
Why defensiveness, criticism, and poor listening derail trust.  
Communication strategies leaders can use to build stronger teams.  
How couples, managers, investigators, and HR professionals can ask better questions and create psychological safety.  
Practical tools—including Kristina's weekly relationship check-in—that improve connection before problems become crises.  
If you're interested in communication skills, emotional intelligence, leadership, couples therapy, active listening, conflict management, workplace communication, investigative interviewing, relationship advice, difficult conversations, psychology, or personal growth, this episode delivers actionable techniques you can begin using immediately. 
Whether you're a business leader, law enforcement professional, HR investigator, therapist, or someone simply looking to build healthier relationships, you'll leave this conversation with one powerful reminder: 
Replace assumptions with curiosity—and watch every conversation change 
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Why This Matters
While this conversation centers on relationships, its lessons extend far beyond couples therapy. Many of the same communication principles discussed in this episode—curiosity, active listening, emotional intelligence, and avoiding assumptions—are the same evidence-based skills taught by Wicklander-Zulawski for investigative interviewing, workplace investigations, leadership, and other difficult conversations. 
Whether you're leading a team, interviewing a witness, conducting an HR investigation, or working to strengthen a personal relationship, better conversations lead to better outcomes. 

What if the most effective way to prevent crime isn't another arrest—but another conversation?
For nearly 30 years, Keeley Knowles lived with a severe heroin addiction, funding it as one of the United Kingdom's most prolific shoplifters. Stuart Toogood spent those same three decades serving as a police officer with West Midlands Police. By every measure, they should have remained on opposite sides of the law.
Instead, they formed a partnership that helped save a life.
In this powerful episode of Truth Be Told, host Dave Thompson sits down with Keeley and Stuart to explore the human side of addiction, retail theft, and policing. They discuss how the innovative Offender to Recovery program challenged traditional law enforcement approaches by addressing the root causes of repeat offending instead of simply making another arrest.
Keeley shares her firsthand experience with addiction, organized retail theft, recovery, and rebuilding her life after believing she would never escape substance use. Stuart reflects on his policing career, why understanding addiction transformed the way he approached investigations, and how compassion, accountability, and evidence-based intervention can work together to reduce crime and change lives.
Whether you're a police officer, detective, retail investigator, loss prevention professional, security leader, HR investigator, or simply someone interested in addiction recovery and criminal justice reform, this conversation offers practical insights that extend far beyond shoplifting.
Truths:
Prevention starts with understanding the person, not just the crime. Addressing the root causes of offending can reduce repeat crime more effectively than enforcement alone.
Addiction doesn't discriminate. As Keeley shares, anyone can find themselves "two or three mistakes away" from addiction, making empathy and education essential for investigators, law enforcement, and the public.
Compassion and accountability can coexist. Holding people accountable while treating them with dignity creates opportunities for recovery without compromising public safety.
Effective policing is about more than making arrests. Stuart explains how helping people access recovery services prevented future crime and ultimately made communities safer.
Human connection changes outcomes. One security officer's willingness to care—and one police officer's willingness to do something different—helped save Keeley's life.
Retail theft is often a symptom of a deeper problem. Understanding the motivations behind organized retail theft and addiction can help investigators, retailers, and loss prevention professionals develop more effective prevention strategies.
Second chances create lasting impact. Recovery isn't just about overcoming addiction—it's about rebuilding relationships, restoring purpose, and helping others find hope through lived experience.
Wicklander-Zulawski & Associates and the International Association of Interviewers are proud supporters of the Truth Be Told podcast.  Leaders in evidence-based investigative interviewing for law enforcement, loss prevention, human resources, compliance, security and audit professionals.  Learn more here.
This episode is also supported by our friends at ORIS Media, a publications, education and events company, serving the European retail loss prevention industry.

How do experienced investigators end up on the wrong path—even when they're trying to do the right thing?
In this episode of Truth Be Told, Dave Thompson, CFI sits down once again with retired U.S. Secret Service agent and author Brad Beeler for a conversation that challenges some of the biggest assumptions in investigations. We explore how gut instinct can become confirmation bias, why false confessions happen more often than many people realize, and how investigators can avoid unintentionally steering themselves toward the wrong conclusions.
Brad shares powerful stories from his own career—including cases that changed the way he interviews forever—and introduces his mathematical model of criminal behavior, a practical framework for understanding motive beyond simply asking "Who had reason?"
We also discuss the importance of perspective over perception, the role of empathy without agreement, and the science-backed interviewing principles that lead to better information and better outcomes.
Whether you're in law enforcement, corporate investigations, HR, or simply interested in how people think and make decisions, this episode offers practical insights into improving communication, reducing bias, and finding the truth.
At its core, it's really about how humans make decisions, how our biases shape what we believe, and how curiosity can help us get closer to the truth. That's a theme your audience consistently responds to, and it comes through naturally in this conversation.
Check out more about Brad and his book "Tell Me Everything": Brad Beeler | Retired Secret Service Agent, Author, Keynote Speaker & Communication Expert
BOOK | Brad Beeler
Truths:
Why intuition is both an investigator's greatest asset and greatest liability.
How confirmation bias quietly shapes interviews and investigations.
What false confessions teach us about outdated interrogation tactics.
Brad Beeler's mathematical model for understanding criminal behavior.
Why perspective—not perception—is the key to effective interviewing.
Practical techniques for building rapport, reducing bias, and uncovering reliable information.
How investigators can challenge their own assumptions while improving case outcomes.
Come see Brad speak at the International Association of Interviewers Elite Training Days Conference!

What happens when you spend more than two decades helping organizations communicate, investigate, and build trust across the globe?
In this episode of Truth Be Told, Dave Thompson, CFI sits down with WZ Vice President of International, Chris Norris, CFI to explore what he's learned from working in more than 45 countries and traveling to over 80. From living in the UK to teaching investigators in Afghanistan, Korea, Brazil, and beyond, Chris shares the cultural lessons, communication mistakes, and relationship-building strategies that have shaped his career.
The conversation dives into the surprising differences—and remarkable similarities—between people around the world. Chris discusses how curiosity, humility, and adaptability can help anyone build stronger relationships, whether they're leading an international team, conducting an interview, or simply connecting with people from different backgrounds. Along the way, he shares memorable stories about cultural misunderstandings, translating investigative training across languages, and why some of the most important communication lessons have nothing to do with words at all.
Learn more about WZ's International presence!
Truths:
People are more alike than different. Whether you're in London, Seoul, Kabul, or Chicago, the fundamental challenges of communication, trust, and information gathering remain remarkably consistent. Cultural differences matter, but human nature is universal.
Curiosity is a communication superpower. The most effective communicators don't assume—they ask. Chris shares how approaching new cultures with humility, patience, and a willingness to learn opens doors that expertise alone cannot.
Adaptation builds credibility. From language choices and email etiquette to dress and behavior, small adjustments can make a big difference in building rapport and trust across cultures. Adaptation isn't about changing who you are—it's about showing respect for the people you're trying to connect with.
Don't mistake difference for resistance. What looks like disengagement, disrespect, or reluctance in one culture may actually be a sign of respect in another. Effective communicators learn to challenge their assumptions before drawing conclusions.
Open-mindedness is the foundation of growth. Chris's message to every class is simple: "Be open-minded, and we'll learn something together." Whether you're leading a team, conducting an interview, or traveling abroad, growth begins when you're willing to see the world through someone else's perspective.
 

This episode of Truth Be Told dives into the intersection of wrongful convictions, communication, strategy, and even poker.
In this powerful conversation, Dave Thompson, CFI sits down with innocence attorney and poker player Claudia Salinas to explore how psychology, trust, bias, and human behavior shape both the courtroom and the interrogation room. From uncovering wrongful convictions to reading people at the poker table, Claudia shares how communication, emotional control, and strategic thinking can impact lives in the highest-stakes situations.
The episode takes listeners inside the work of The Innocence Center and the broader innocence movement, breaking down how innocent people end up behind bars — and why proving innocence is often far harder than securing a conviction in the first place. Claudia discusses false confessions, racial bias, Brady violations, eyewitness issues, and the emotional realities of post-conviction advocacy, while Dave connects these lessons directly to investigative interviewing and truth-seeking conversations.
If you’re interested in investigative interviewing, psychology, communication, criminal justice reform, or the human side of truth and deception, this is an episode you won’t want to miss.
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Truths:
False confessions are real — and often driven by psychology, pressure, misplaced trust, and flawed interrogation tactics.
Wrongful convictions are rarely caused by one single mistake; they’re usually the result of bias, tunnel vision, misinformation, and small decisions compounding over time.
Communication and rapport matter in every high-stakes environment — from investigative interviews to courtrooms to poker tables.
Confidence isn’t about ego; it’s about preparation, emotional control, and trusting the process even when outcomes don’t immediately go your way.
Every person — investigators, jurors, attorneys, and everyday citizens — plays a role in protecting justice and preventing wrongful convictions.
 
 

What if the strongest thing you can do… is talk about it?
In this powerful episode of Truth Be Told, Pasha Palanker shares his extraordinary journey from Soviet immigrant to decorated U.S. Army veteran — and the invisible battle that followed him home.
After surviving roadside bombs, earning two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star with Valor, and serving in some of the most dangerous combat environments in Iraq, Pasha opens up about the trauma, anger, PTSD, isolation, and mental health struggles he spent years hiding. He explains how survival instincts that once saved his life in combat nearly destroyed his relationships, his identity, and his future.
This conversation goes beyond military stories. It’s an honest discussion about trauma, emotional resilience, veteran mental health, leadership, stigma, healing, and the courage it takes to ask for help. Dave Thompson and Pasha explore topics like PTSD recovery, suicide prevention, emotional intelligence, therapy, journaling, resilience, trauma-informed communication, and why so many veterans and first responders suffer in silence.
Whether you’re in the military, law enforcement, leadership, mental health advocacy, or simply trying to navigate your own struggles, this episode is a raw reminder that strength doesn’t come from pretending you’re okay — it comes from facing the truth.
Follow Pasha on Instagram!
Truths:
Trauma doesn’t always show up immediately — sometimes the hardest battle begins after coming home.
Survival instincts that protect people in high-stress environments can become destructive when they follow them into everyday life.
Isolation fuels trauma. Healing often begins with honest conversation and human connection.
Taking responsibility for your mental health is different than blaming yourself for what happened.
Strength is not pretending to be okay — it’s having the courage to confront the truth about yourself.
Presence and empathy are more powerful than trying to “fix” someone’s pain.
Recovery isn’t one breakthrough moment. It’s built through small actions, consistency, community, and purpose.

What happens when the people meant to protect… become the ones you have to investigate?
In this episode, Dave Thompson, CFI sits down with Sean Buckley—former New Zealand detective and United Nations investigator—whose career has taken him from local policing to some of the most complex, high-risk investigations across the globe.
We get into what it’s really like to build trust in environments where no one wants you there… interviewing victims, suspects, and even terrorists across more than 90 countries… and navigating cases involving child abuse, war zones, and political assassinations.
But the biggest takeaway?
Whether you’re in a patrol car, a boardroom, or a conflict zone—your most powerful tool isn’t force… it’s communication.
Sean breaks down why rapport isn’t a “soft skill”—it’s the skill—and how the ability to connect, adapt, and listen under pressure is what separates good from great in any high-stakes conversation.
If your job—or your life—depends on getting the truth from people, this one’s worth your time.
Learn more about OSACO Group!
Sean mentioned EchoMind on the episode - here's a link to learn more.
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Truths:
Rapport is the foundation of everything.No matter the country, case, or subject—if you can’t build trust, you won’t get the truth.
Communication is the most undertrained—but most critical—skill.Officers train constantly for force, but rarely for conversation… even though it’s what they use every day.
Real-world situations don’t follow your training script.The best interviewers aren’t the most prepared—they’re the most adaptable when things go sideways.
High-stakes environments amplify everything.Whether it’s a war zone or a patrol call, pressure exposes gaps in training, mindset, and communication.
The goal is to get others talking—not to control the conversation.The more they speak, the more information you gather—and the better your outcomes.
Cultural awareness isn’t optional—it’s operational.Understanding people’s backgrounds, values, and fears is often the difference between resistance and cooperation.
Preparation and creativity separate average from elite investigators.The best outcomes don’t come from luck—they come from intentional planning and tailored approaches.
Respect and authenticity travel across every environment.From local communities to international conflict zones, how you treat people determines what they give back.

In this episode of the Truth Be Told Podcast, Dave Thompson, CFI sits down with singer-songwriter Cami Clune (as see on NBC's The Voice) to explore communication, storytelling, and songwriting—and how artists say what others struggle to express.
Cami shares her journey through the music industry, from early performances to her breakout moment on The Voice, along with the mindset needed to handle rejection, performance anxiety, and creative pressure.
Follow Cami on Instagram!
This episode covers:
The songwriting process and turning emotions into lyrics
How music becomes a powerful form of communication and storytelling
Overcoming stage fright, anxiety, and self-doubt
Building confidence and finding your authentic voice
The role of vulnerability and authenticity in connecting with an audience
Lessons in personal branding, creativity, and resilience
You’ll also hear behind-the-scenes insights on content creation, social media for artists, and growing a personal brand in today’s digital world.
If you’re interested in communication skills, storytelling, public speaking, music, or personal development, this episode will give you practical insights and a new perspective on how to share your message.
Your story matters—and the way you communicate it can change everything.